Pushing the co-parenting envelope too far?
by Dr. Leah
Filed under Single Dads
Because so many of you are co-parenting pros, we’re reaching out to you again. So, a single dad who comments here very often has come to us for some advice. Can you help? This father of two has been raising his kids alone for the past five years, ever since his ex told him “I want more from life” — and left.
Fortunately, both Mom and Dad have tried to get along for the kids’ sake. For the first few years, she paid maintenance and child support. She also made an effort to see the kids often. (They had 50/50 custody up until she moved away last year. The court order is still joint physical and legal custody.)
Last year, however, she got into financial trouble because she made some poor choices. She lost her job and stopped contributing to health insurance, day care, etc. Then, she announced that she was going to live with her parents — in another state — to get back on her feet.
“The kids are doing great,” this dad tells us, with well-earned pride. “I’ve managed to get them caught up on school work, in addition to my full time job and consulting gigs. I pay for everything, including sports teams, martial arts classes, dental and doctor bills. Basically, I cover everything except for her monthly trips to visit them.”
His ex visits once a month — for a weekend, when she has stayed at her foreclosed home — and the kids fly to see their mom during long school breaks. So, what’s the problem?
Well, his ex is coming to visit the kids for Mother’s Day. And she recently emailed him saying:
“Will you please let me stay on your couch for Mothers Day? It’s fine if you’re there — or not. I don’t think I can afford a hotel, and also pay for the kids’ summer plane tickets and their summer camp here. My parents pretty much kicked me out of their house, which, with first and last month’s rent, has left me so broke I can’t afford any of the above.”
This father was taken aback that his ex-wife was asking to stay at his home. (And his girlfriend isn’t too thrilled about the possible arrangement, either.) Especially since the kids report that Mom just bought a pricey Pomeranian and a new TV.
This father wants to do the right thing. But he feels torn.
Should this single dad let his kids’ mom stay as a guest in his home?
Is his girlfriend wrong to object?
Do you see troubles down the road if his kids’ mother stays with him — even temporarily?
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Twitter @ http://pigeonsandplatypi.blogspot.com
No! Nononononono. That’s definitely pushing it. It wasn’t even something he suggested; she asked and that, to me, is a sign that she’ll try to push more boundaries. He’s already said she stopped contributing financially. Now she wants more favors from him?
Allison´s last blog ..What I’m thinking about
Twitter @ http://gawlas.blogspot.com
That’s a tough one. She basically has him in a corner. If he says no, he’s the rat bastard who wont let her come see the kids. If he says yes, she has free access to his home, his stuff, and an expectation to continue that couch surfing arrangement for the rest of the kids’ childhoods.
I don’t know if what else she’s bought comes into play here. A person has a right to a little entertainment after all, but this feels like a set up for more.
If he isn’t comfortable with her sleeping on the couch that’s fine. But I would (in true CYA form) find a couple of low or no cost alternatives instead of turning her down flat.
alley´s last blog ..Over posting.
Twitter @ kerriwall
I remember many weekends letting my ex stay at my home so that he could hang out with our son, and he let us stay at his place a few times too. We lived far apart and didn’t have much money at the time. It was sometimes awkward and took a bit of negotiating to figure out what would work, and that phase of our relationship is over now. But it seemed to be a good solution for everyone at the time. Since you write that Single Dad “wants to do the right thing” he probably already knows in his heart what that means for him. I wish him the courage to do exactly that.
Kerri´s last blog ..The Future of Parenting
Twitter @ http://tsquest.blogspot.com
Oh boy…
My ex used to watch our daughters at my house on the nights that he had them. In other words, I had to leave my own home to have some time to myself. That feeling was so … ugh…
If I were him, I would definitely see what other alternatives he can suggest. Maybe she has a friend she could stay with? I would give her a gentle boundary that she cannot cross but assist her in making other arrangements. There is NO WAY that he should enable her. She needs to put on her big girl panties and show that she’s a grown up. She’s already skipped out on too many responsibilities at this point.
He is doing a fine job, from what it sounds like. I don’t think that he’d be a bad person for telling her that she needs to figure some things out for herself. If it means ANYTHING to her to see her children, SHE will make it work.
T´s last blog ..My Sexuality, part 5
I’ve done it. My ex left us when my son was an infant. He’s been fairly unstable since. He’s spent a couple holidays sleeping on my couch and off & on if he was living in another city and came on the bus to see the children. It’s intensely uncomfortable. I’d say important criteria are: Are you over the sexual part (I’m guessing you are.) because nobody needs that type of complication. I had to be very clear with my children in no uncertain terms what it meant, and what it didn’t mean. In my case there was a clear “end” to the visit – a bus ticket back home. Also, can you be in close quarters without bickering? That’s a big one otherwise it’s more harm than good.
In my case we were done with the sexual attraction. I explained to my children that Daddy is family. And because we divorced, he is still family. You help when you can. But it’s one night (or two, whatever the deal) and then Daddy is back on the bus. Then I literally white knuckled it through the 48 hours so they could spend time with him.
The mom sounds like an irresponsible person who feels the world owes her … I don’t have much respect for her. She should find a friend to stay with, or an inexpensive motel. Staying on the couch is hard on the dad and the kids, and his current relationship. As for summer plane tickets and camp, it depends on Dad’s finances. If he can help, he should. If not, many camps have financial support for those in true need. Mom should look into the city run camps and what aid is available before even asking her ex, but if he can help with the money, great. About staying at his home, no way.
Boo! This woman is expecting the world. Poo on her. I think this dad needs to say no way. She made her choices and she needs to make do. Tell her to pitch a tent somewhere. He is in a new relationship and he shouldn’t do anything to jeopardize it, especially with a woman who is A) financially irresponsible B) just split on her kids!
Twitter @ rollerdarby
Wow…sounds like something my ex would do. I think it really depends on the relationship between the parents. If he feels comfortable with it and doesn’t feel like it would be misleading to the kids, then go ahead. However, if he is uncomfortable with it (and values his gf), he shouldn’t feel bad for saying no. We are all responsible for our own actions, so if she has been irresponsible with money, that’s her problem. Yes, I do understand that we often cover for these types of things for the sake of the kids, but is that really sending them the right message? That they can grow up to be selfish and irresponsible because someone will always cover for them.
Twitter @ aprilabtbalance
Why did her parents kick her out? That raises red flags for me. If her own parents won’t let her in their home, why should he? This isn’t to minimize the predicament. I can understand that he doesn’t want to be the one to keep her from their kids, but I also think it’s up to her to figure this out. Can he call her parents and find out what’s going on?
April´s last blog ..Earth Day 2010
Twitter @ http://aprettygoodtime.blogspot.com
My ex stays at my house at least once a week so that I can go out. He lives an hour away right now and if he didn’t stay overnight (in a guest room), I would have to be home by 9 or so anytime I wanted to go on a date or see friends, so it works for me. In fact, due to money issues, he’s moving back in with us for a month or two this summer. I’m not thrilled about it, but for me, it’s better than the alternatives (namely, getting less support $) and it’s temporary.
I don’t think it’s a big deal to let her stay one or two nights, but if he’s really uncomfortable, could he offer to cover or split the cost of a hotel? It sounds like this dad is doing a great job. I wish there were more like him out there!
Robyn´s last blog ..The Wave
Twitter @ http://locsandlittleones.blogspot.com
I agree with April on this one. The fact that her parents kicked her out and she didn’t seem to have had a plan for leaving their house is a little suspicious. I understand not wanting to be the bad guy, but can he trust that she is only going to stay for a couple of nights and not try to cross any other boundaries. It sounds like she needs to do a little growing up and learn to fend for herself. If she used to live in the area, she could try to stay with friends.
I’d just think twice about letting her stay in the house.
Marquita´s last blog ..The Independent Black Woman Debate
Twitter @ http://www.singlemommyhood.com
@Marquita: This Dad also tells us that his friends keep telling him that he’s too “nice” to his ex. Hmmmm. Great idea about suggesting that she stay with friends!
Twitter @ http://www.singlemommyhood.com
@Robyn: Thanks for chiming in that this kind of “arrangement” CAN work if the co-parents have boundaries. Good for you for finding your way.
Twitter @ http://coparenting101.org/
Rachel, the tweet you posted confirmed what my Spidey sense was telling me. I think this is about the girlfriend, at least in part. Maybe mom wants to flex her muscles (or some other body part). Red flags on that, and on her parents putting her out.
I know dad doesn’t want to seem like the bad guy by not letting mom stay (and if he refuses, there’s a chance Mom may tell the kids, “Sorry, I want to see you, but your dad won’t let me stay over”), but imagine what’s worse: If he lets her stay, she makes a scene and he asks her to leave and she refuses…or if at the end of the agreed upon time she refuses to leave because she has nowhere to go. Then the kids will see Dad “kicking Mom out” when she has nowhere to go. No one wants that.
So, at most I think he should offer to pay for a hotel room for her and the kids (but I’m betting she doesn’t have money for food, etc, so that won’t fly). But he’s not morally obligated to do any of this; she’s an adult, this is her responsibility, and this is not a case of someone generally responsible just having a rough patch.
I say this as someone who generally would agree that with boundaries, this kind of couch arrangement would be fine. But the red flags on this particular situation give me a different feeling.
Deesha´s last blog ..Hey, Co-Parents! Wanna Whoop Some Ash?
Twitter @ http://newsingledad.wordpress.com
Wow…
Obviously, from a few paragraphs from one party, we don’t have the whole story, but, wow. I’d be pretty unhappy about being put in the situation of having to make that decision.
I’m a big fan of experiencing the consequences of your actions, regardless of which part you are. If she’s making choices that doesn’t give her the option to come visit her kids on mother’s day, that’s NOT your problem, bailouts rarely help, as her parents learned.
As the step-parent of a single mom, who has made some, well, interesting choices in her life, she’s been pretty much kicked out of our house, and she’s on her own, she’s used up any parental capital she may have had with me, and I think the father of her kids feels the same way.
With that said, it’s going to be hard for the kids. I’d look at making a thing out of helping the kids send her cards and small (homemade) gifts if she can’t make it, and let them know that they’ll see her soon.
If it were me, though, I’d probably wind up giving in. Sigh… I’m glad it’s not me.
newsingledad´s last blog ..Buying Just One Ticket
Twitter @ http://www.weparent.com
I really think that a big message for this father is to know that he won’t be “wrong” if he decides not to let her stay. I know how it is to carry guilt when you know you may be enabling your co-parent, but not diong it may mean a sacrifice for the kids. I agree with some of the other comments that if he feels comfortable with her staying, if they are both clear how long she will be staying, and if his girlfriend is supportive, it wouldn’t be a “bad” decision to let her stay. But, I also think that he should feel comfortable drawing and standing by boundaries that work for him. If he chooses to go that route, he can be really clear that he knows the children would love to see her, that he empathizes with the difficult financial situation she is experiencing, that he wants to be supportive *and* that her staying at his place will not work for him. In addition, though, he could offer to brainstorm some other solutions with her, thus being supportive but not enabling, leading and not judging or condemning. My final thought is that whatever decision he makes, it should be one that he can stand by without harboring resentment toward the mother. It should be a choice he can own. I wish him all the best. It ain’t easy!
Talibah´s last blog ..This Week: Co-Parents, Come Whoop Some Ash!
Twitter @ http://www.jane-sliceoflife.com/
I think everyone, is thinking too much about this. Really. And if he has the kids 24/7, let him go away for the night. The kids would have an awesome time. And this is about the kids, not the GF. He knows what to do.
Jane´s last blog ..Do you parent your friends?
Twitter @ seppichdaily
I married this guy – well not ‘This’ guy, but this situation. I can tell you from personal experience letting her stay will confuse the children. Divorce is confusing enough for children. If something happens and boundaries are crossed and he has to ask her to leave, trust me, not good. I’ve found that angry women can spin a situation any way they want to their children, and the kids believe that story. It’s unfortunate that some people have that much anger inside them to put kids in the middle of adult decisions or discussions. Avoid the battle, keep your children safe, don’t let her stay.
Twitter @ _katarena_
I don’t think that this guy should feel guilty at all about not letting his ex stay at his house. That’s an uncomfortable situation & shortly before J’s dad signed his rights over, one that I’d dealt with too many times. He & his mother were always asking what I could do to help them see J. It is not his responsibility to provide for her financially & that’s basically what she’s asking him to do. I’d recommend that she find a friend to stay with so that they don’t confuse the kids. I would definitely put my foot down on the plane tickets and camp expenses. Why would he pay to send his kids to a camp where she lives? She’s not going to be seeing them while they’re at camp. That’s money that he can use to send them to a local camp. She should also be responsible for airfare, and if she can’t afford that how is she going to be taking care of the kids while they’re staying with her? If she really is purchasing pricey new things for herself then she needs to get her priorities in line. If he agrees to cover for her now then he’ll be doing it forever.
Kate´s last blog ..An open letter to the girl who slept with my boyfriend while I was pregnant…
Twitter @ http://www.jane-sliceoflife.com/
I am not reading anger into this situation at all. I am, however, reading about a man, how has managed to maintain a stable environment for his children, with an ex, who maintained stability up until she moved. She is not bailing out of their lives.
Kids should not have to experience the money aspects of a divorce. That should be kept between the adults. It’s not easy or pretty. But is should stay with the adults. Whether a mom or a dad, can support financially, never takes away from the fact that they are the other parent.
This dad should think of himself, first. If he can handle her, staying in his home environment, then that is what he should do. The GF is a GF, not his wife, or child. Kids are exceptionally resilient, and are not as confused as we perceive them to be, especially if the custodial parent has their feet firmly planted on the ground with how they run their daily lives. Ten years from now, these children will not even be aware of the haggles of money, they will however, remember the time Mom, came and stayed on the couch, for Mother’s day, and find him to be cool. Equally, if he chooses not to, his children will appreciate his thoughtfulness, in having their back.
Sometimes, we really do overthink things, and have to realize its not always about us, its about them, and fostering a relationship that will survive one way or another, when they are older. How will our adult kids reflect back on our behavior then? We have that control.
Jane´s last blog ..Do you parent your friends?
Twitter @ singledadsdiary
NO!
I can’t believe you’re even considering this idea.
If you really want to be seen to be the good guy, perhaps you could ask a friend if she could stay on their sofa- but I really wouldn’t go to too much trouble. It sounds like it’s about time that she got her act together.
Twitter @ lajasa
For the sake of the children and their relationship with a mama who seems to be struggling a bit and perhaps has fallen on hard times I would absolutely allow and even encourage her stay on the ex’s sofa. I know there are other people’s emotions to consider – but mostly those folks are grown ups and can handle it. I feel for both dad and mom. I wouldn’t worry about her buying a little dog – don’t begrudge the poor woman a little dog – maybe she’s trying to make an effort at being more nurturing! It doesn’t always come naturally for mothers. I’m sure if given a choice, she would prefer to pay for her own hotel – but the fact she’s asking the ex to stay on a couch tells me she’s willing to swallow her pride to visit the kids. Not a bad sign. Not at all!
Twitter @ lildevilmama
When my son was an infant and he had surgery, my Ex stayed on the couch to help me out. BUT other than that kind of extreme circumstance I’d say NO way Buddy! If they lived in the same community before her hitting rockbottom, shouldn’t she have friends? Maybe she can stay at a co-op or hostel?
Even if this is about the girlfriend, he has a right to his privacy in his home. The Ex is a grown-up and should be able to work out the details of her stay without imposing her issues on him. Sorry, but this just stinks of co-dependency. When my son’s Dad had financial issues he always made sure to take care of our kiddo and never made his issues mine.
Twitter @ DoktaDivah
I don’t get that the dad is angry, either. I see both sides of this, but I definitely agree with April and Marquita that if her parents have kicked her out, pay attention to those red flags. A weekend can quickly become a year. Yes, this is about what’s best for the kids, but a person in a relationship does have some responsibility to the feelings of the other person. I understand the gf’s hesitancy here.
In most cases, if your relationship is generally amiable and you can trust her, I would let her stay. BUT, given that she has made some bad financial choices, her parents have kicked her out, and you are torn on the issue (listen to your gut – none of us does this often enough), I would say go ahead and say no. Don’t feel guilty about it.
I’ve watched too many nice people allow themselves to get suckered into nonsense because they happened to be the responsible one. It’s ok to say no to things that are bad for you. Your kids may be disappointed, but your own mental health dictates your ability to help them work through what’s likely to come later.
Lisa R.´s last blog ..Re: The Cultural Homicide of Professional Black Women
Twitter @ msjennixoxo
I would flat out say no.
My ex and I are unfortunately having to agree on a joint custody visitation schedule. But see, he has no car, and has in the past depended on me to be the kids’ source of transportation.. which was fine with me, when I was getting child support.
Now that all financial assistance has stopped, I have put my foot down. If he can’t financially support his kids, then he no longer has the right to assume I’m going to cart the kids back and forth from the metro train. And I’m NOT.
She obviously has no respect for her ex or kids. A new dog and TV should not take priority over child support, rent, bills, etc. It sounds to me like she has things a little ass backwards, and dad needs to set her straight.
And like T said, if she really wants to see her kids, she’ll figure it out HERSELF and MAKE it work.
Jenni´s last blog ..I Just Want To Cry
Twitter @ BigLittleWolf
I also think a few low-cost alternatives to the couch makes sense. Tough situation all round. But there’s a limit.
BigLittleWolf´s last blog ..Listless
First & Foremost, sounds like you’re doing a bang up job dad… way to go! Tough call about the X since you probably want to do the right thing for your kiddos (I’m guessing they love & miss their mom regardless of whether she deserves it or not). I applaud all those divorcees who are able to make this sort of arrangement work without muddying the waters for the kids. Clearly those who can pull this off are the more emotionally evolved, rational, and mature divorcees. Unfortunately many of us are divorced from those (male & female) who are less mature, less emotionally evolved, irrational, and possibly down right psychotic. If you are divorced from one of these nut jobs, you know who you are, and you know all too well what living hell they have already put you through and most likely your kids too; opening up your home to them could open a Pandora’s box from hell! Be very/very careful! Have no fear of the repercussions of saying no if this is the right thing to do… only you know. The fact that mom & dad have thrown their own, down and out, daughter out on the street is pretty telling. Sadly mom desperately needs to grow up, get some help, and get her life back on track. Good luck my single daddyhood friend and keep up the great work!
Our single dad reader actually wanted to respond himself but he felt the situation was just too personal to be public about it.
Here’s what he wrote to us: As an update I actually got an email from my ex yesterday saying she found a friend’s house to stay at. She was still asking to use my place “if I wanted to go away for the weekend” but she’s made other arrangements. Thankfully she didn’t press about the plane tickets or camp but I know that discussion is still on the horizon.
Since I never responded to her original requests she must have realized I wasn’t going to say yes. In terms of the comments,I think most people are dead on. She’s a selfish person who believes the world has done her a great disservice and now she expects everyone else to pick up the pieces for her. I’ve more than stepped up to the plate to carry the weight. I will absolutely give everything I have to my kids however her financial situation is a result of the choices she made and I won’t help her any more than I already am. I hate that she tries to make me the bad guy whenever things aren’t going her way.
I really do appreciate all of the comments and I am grateful that so many other single parents can see my perspective and “forgive” me for not helping her in this situation. I try to have a good relationship with her for the kids’ sake and I compromise a lot but she just keeps taking and taking and enough is enough. I can’t be responsible for her life any more than she is for mine.
As always, I really appreciate everything the Singlemommyhood community does. It’s so hard to get perspective as a single dad sometimes.
Twitter @ melaniekissell
Bravissimo! This is one single dad with his head and heart in the right place!
I’m past a half a hundred, been around the block a few times, and raised four daughters on my own. So I’m no slacker in the parenting department.
As far as the ex-spouse goes, I sincerely believe she’s like a gazillion other people who enjoy playing the role of the “victim”. You know … “Poor Pitiful Pearl”. It’s time for her to wake up and smell the coffee!
She’s obviously missing a wonderful opportunity to be a good role model for her children. Instead, I feel she’s acting very immature and irresponsible … two horrible behaviors for children to witness.
Best of luck to you, Dad! Stick to your guns and do what feels right in your gut. Trust your instincts, common sense, and better judgment.
Melanie Kissell´s last blog ..Perfectionists Stubbornly Refuse To Outsource
No. My ex does this from time to time, and you have to draw the line. If the line doesn’t get drawn, the mooching will continue. It is time for her to grow up and be an adult.
Twitter @ http://singlemomscircus.wordpress.com/
I think you’ve thought this through well and have a good head on your shoulders concerning the situation. It also sounds like you’ve set some boundaries or are planning too. It is important for a mom to see her kids but it should not be at the expense of everyone else. It would be different if this were a one time situation, but it’s not.
I had to put my foot down with my ex on some financial matters in the beginning. He wanted me to get his utilities in my name. NO WAY! He’s irresponsible with money and I would end up with the bill and no money to pay it. It’s one thing to do little things to assist her with seeing the kids. It’s another to pay for plane tickets and summer camps. I know from experiences of family members, once you start these things, they never stop. I hate to sound so cynical but actions speak louder than words.
The Ringleader´s last blog ..Just Having Fun
Twitter @ WriteEditRepeat
Stephanie wrote: “I’ve found that angry women can spin a situation any way they want to their children, and the kids believe that story.”
So true. It’s a shame.
At first, I thought “he should let her stay as a last resort.” If she’s so broke and in such a bad way that her own parents threw her out, you’d have to worry about the safety of the kids if they stayed with her anywhere other than the dad’s place. But after reading his comment, and much of the discussion here, I think I’d be more inclined to split the cost of a hotel room for her…
Twitter @ nich512
Wow, what a pickle. First off I do not know how old the kids are but kudos to the Dad for taking such good care of their children. This is a good opportunity to be an example to the children and be a “good Samaritan” about this and let her stay. Lay out concrete, ground rules and let her know she has to go, say the next day and your girlfriend come over and hang out. If the mom is mentally and emotionally stable maybe have her stay at the house and spend the day/time with the kids and have Dad stay at girlfriends and come back at the crack of dawn. In situations like this the children will see/ learn by example and know who the responsible parent is by their actions.
All the best, you are in my prayers and thoughts.
Twitter @ http://datingadvicealmostdaily.wordpress.com
Wow.
She left the marriage. She left the children. She made poor choices which led to financial disaster. Now she want to wriggle back onto the couch of the man she dumped for her own selfish purposes.
He’d be crazy to let this weasel back into his house. What? He owes it to her because it’s Mother’s Day? She decided that parenthood wasn’t her deal years ago.
If he can’t bear to say ‘no’ to the mother of his children (good guy that he is), I suggest he bite the bullet and pay for her stay in a $99.00 room at a roadside Hilton, or something (obviously, I’m hoping he doesn’t live in NYC or San Francisco).
Because if he lets her stay on his couch, he may find that a weekend turns into weeks, months, maybe a year. He may never get rid of her.
Terry from Dating Advice (Almost) Daily´s last blog ..To Attract Men, Try This…